bye

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Silver Moon Cloud
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri May 19, 2017 5:30 am
Guild: Druids

bye

Post by Silver Moon Cloud »

Goodbye Terris.

Some people really know how and excel in ruining this game for people
and are good at driving people away from the game as opposed to
drawing people to it. I had enough of it.

C YA
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alcestis
Posts: 99
Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2014 2:08 pm

Re: bye

Post by alcestis »

NAMES, PLEASE!
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Stryph
Posts: 77
Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2017 11:03 pm
Guild: Warlocks

Re: bye

Post by Stryph »

Sorry to see you go even if we didn't get to play much together.
Stryph - Tir - Rath
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velvet
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2014 2:09 pm
Guild: Thieves
Temple: Nature

Re: bye

Post by velvet »

I can't say I am surprised to see this post. Anyone can be driven to the point where they think, why am i putting up with this. Sad to see you go Silvermooncloud.

Velvet
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Dagda
Posts: 62
Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2014 2:08 pm
Guild: Druids
Temple: Peace and Nature

Re: bye

Post by Dagda »

After some thought I've decided to reply to this nonsense from Silvermooncloud.

Firstly taking the i'm a paying player and you cant punish me because of that stance is an entirely OOC point of view, and obviously incorrect anyway.

Secondly, all my temple members are clearly warned IC I can and will do worse than death in the event of punishment being required.

Further members, and many others are shown the void and what the punishment will be.

Silver decided to rp quitting my temple, all well and good, thats within her right to do so, IC she would know and surely expect to be punished for this IC, and as I am also Peace I will not kill mortals, therefore the worse than death punishment was implemented.

This consisted of max disfavour, which does not affect druids that much and isolation in the void, something All my followers, and indeed many others are made aware of is a possibility and its well known I use that as a sanction...

She then in a separate incident she decided use her time in the void to mail one of her alts body restore rings which would help in fighting , for this she was placed on guild probation as this is not something druids are free to do.

These choices by her combined to effectively cripple the character from doing anything much at all.

Further, the punishment had lasted exactly two earth days with silver trying to threaten to complain to ops (who are fully aware of my actions and entirely supportive of them) and blackmail me by telling all her friends what an evil bullying immortal I am before silver decided to quit the game when I unsurprisingly did not give in to such loathsome tactics, Its worth noting none of her other characters were affected and she was entirely at liberty to play the game on those characters.

Silver was not driven to do anything, she simply tried to avoid IC punishment by using OOC gameplay to avoid IC Roleplay consequences, and has thrown mud trying to cast herself as some sort of unfairly treated person by using ooc gameplay as a ruse to avoid IC punishment.

While you may or may not view it as harsh, it is made clear joining my temple is not a laughing matter or one to be taken lightly, and leaving it is extremely rude and insulting to the 'faith' of nature IC.

Other immortals punishments have been and are indeed still are ongoing for months at a time for quitting a temple.

Immortals are not mortals playthings, we have wonderful and terrible powers and abilities, and you should interact at all times in the awareness we can do many things you wont like if you get on the wrong side of us, as well as the many lovely and wonderful things we can do when you are in our good books.

Dagda, Immortal of Peace and Nature.
Rae
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2017 7:22 am

Re: bye

Post by Rae »

Dagda, could you look at it from the perspective of player engagement? With all respect, I'd conclude you went too far in this case.

As a staff member, you're ultimately here to provide engaging, contemporary customer service, even if that conflicts with your IC "rules" regarding temple membership. Players want an enriching roleplay experience, and I'm confident you do too... but not at the expense of player attrition.

Granted, a player shouldn't use, "I'm a paying customer," as justification for breaking rules, but it doesn't look like she did in this case. She simply lost engagement with your temple and wanted to move on to other things.

When I read your justification, it comes off as, "It's fine to lose a paying customer if they're unwilling to accept my IC punishment."

I think OGC would disagree. Punishment weakens engagement. The player was fairly disengaged already, and instead of offering an invitation to come back and reengage with players, contribute to roleplay and possibly retain a valued customer, you ended her relationship with Terris entirely. And ultimately, I believe that hurts the overall landscape of the game.
Last edited by Rae on Sat Jul 08, 2017 7:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Dagda
Posts: 62
Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2014 2:08 pm
Guild: Druids
Temple: Peace and Nature

Re: bye

Post by Dagda »

I notice you've created this account simply to post on this issue.

being a playing player is not an excuse to avoid roleplay consequences at any time...you are basically saying oh i'm paying im quite happy to have all the nice items gifts and blessings of the immortals, but because i pay I can insult them and not have consequences I dont like.

player engagement in terris is about roleplay, the land ultimately lives and dies on roleplay, simply because you are handing over money to play the game does not entitle you to act IC however you like without consequences, and sometimes dire consequences if you stack up enough actions, and further one of the reasons there are wide spread changes in progress to the game mechanics is exactly so we can gain new people and engage people more.

would you rather roleplay with a 'god' who is in fact utterly powerless because you are paying, or would you rather face genuine RP consequences...and benefits.

I realise most are highly unused to facing a genuine live immortals displeasure as there are so few of us active at the moment.

If you believe she didnt break rules you didnt read my post correctly, its the accumulation of the displeasure of leaving the temple AND a clear violation of breaking druids guild rules that combine to cripple the character...for a temporary period...at no point did silver bother to ask how long do you plan to do this, she simply has thrown a fit and tried to create nonsense, these were both entirely clear and stated as part of the joining process of gaining the benefits of being in my temple and being part of druids and her choice to do so.

As Peace it's not within my acceptable actions to slaughter people for misbehaving, I have to do something differnt, and its made clear what that is, and what the expectation of consequences are....if silver, or anyone else do not want those consequences then don't behave in the way that brings them about...simple.

Druids is a unique guild, members are not free to aid in or do killing as they wish and they join on a very clear understanding of what balance in these manners is.

I would suggest you view this from a rather differnt perspective, a child throwing a fit because they cant bully me into letting them break rules, or insult me, i could have gone a lot further than a temporary punishment for a few days..

OGC support my actions entirely as I have stated, and indeed I could have yet done worse to Silver If i had been so inclined, as indeed other currently active immortals have on going punishments for months.....

Dagda Immortal of Peace and Nature.
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Alyce Kiltspar
Heroine of Healing
Posts: 290
Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2014 8:31 pm
Guild: Druids
Temple: Healing

Re: bye

Post by Alyce Kiltspar »

There are two points of view here, one being OOC the other IC. If we are to take all of our IC squabbles OOC what's the point of playing a game in which to are supposed to role play? Either you want to be OOC or you want to be IC you can't have it both ways. Anyone who doesn't see the line that separates the two probably shouldn't be playing this game. From my point of view, when I left Omnicat to Join Peace, I was disfavored and we haven't spoken much since. We have no interactions anymore, unless I happen to catch her or vise versa in the Plaza. I understand that she as an Immortal would be upset that her temple leader left to follow another path. Do I hold that against her in any OOC manner, absolutely not. I was even gracious enough to pass on all of the information I had gathered to her and the new TL. I offered my OOC support to help the transition and I left the IC Immortal to be upset. It saddened Alyce not to talk to Omnicat anymore, but she understands that it probably felt like betrayal to Omnicat and that relationship is damaged. Again, do I hold it against Omni ooc for punishing me? No. It's a part of the game. I made an action and I suffered the consequences of that action. We pay to role play, quest, and hunt, some even play for the interaction. That payment doesn't entitle us to anything more or less than that. If you're looking for customer service aspect, contact ops. Immortals are not customer service, they are there just as we are, the only difference is they have a different set of rules and job requirements than we as mortals have. So again, if you're going to take everything IC OOC, then you're probably better off not playing. Differentiate the two and you'll be fine, just like I am.
Naria's Grace, Alyce Kiltspar, Heroine of Healing
Warden of House & Village Dominium
Proprietor of:
Granite Inn, Shadow's Cross Tavern & Inn and Ebb and Tide Tavern
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radiance
Posts: 117
Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2014 2:09 pm
Guild: Monks
Temple: Hopes and Dreams

Re: bye

Post by radiance »

Dagda and Alyce are so right,

The issue has been for some time with Terris (and other MUDs that I have played) that complaining OOC about an IC action because "customer service" is a thing. In real life it's a thing. In a game we are role-playing, and Dagda is 100% correct, he is going to take the action that a god would take. We have weakened our gods in this game by treating them as though they are just like us. They are not supposed to be. They are gods, they are powerful, and within their RP they can do as their ethos dictates. Dagda acted with absolute in-character justice for his ethos, and should be supported by the community for doing so.

Radiance
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Rae
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2017 7:22 am

Re: bye

Post by Rae »

Alyce and Radiance, I understand your point of view. Unlike SMC, I believe you are both highly engaged and supportive of the current level of IC punishment that immortals are serving.

What Dagda (and perhaps other staff) are doing is very similar to activities in which people subject themselves to physical or mental punishment. Like Terris, people engage in the activity to fulfill a dream or desire, but there are limits, and everyone has varying degrees of punishment they're willing to take. You and Alyce are probably more likely to engage in this activity beyond what SMC was wanting/willing to endure.

Dagda cracked the whip a little too hard and failed to recognize that SMC was disengaging. She quits, and rather than attempt to salvage the player, Dagda publicly shames the player, effectively pushing the player out the door. This wasn't a clear-cut case of IC punishment: Dagda took time to think about what he did, sought affirmation from Ops and other staff, then doubled down.

That activity is part of a long-standing toxic culture from OGC that many players have recognized at one time or another. Immortal turns Terris into their playground and punishes players. Players leave. Rinse and repeat until the immortal quits out of boredom (since, ironically, there are few players to engage with). And we're back at the same, fundamental issue that's plagued this game for years: a lack of strong player retention and cultivation. It's far easier for staff to be destructive than constructive, because cultivating valuable players takes concerted effort and work.

It reminds me of that miniseries House of Saddam. Saddam Hussein kills the brother of his wife for perceived disloyalty. She confronts him by saying something like, "Congratulations, you've surrounded yourself only by men who fear you," all while he blindly and progressively is destroying the party and support that empowered him.

Dagda, I understand you feel your actions were justified. I would hope that the next time you feel compelled to exert power over another player, that you'd dispense with punishment judiciously and with the concern that players—like you—are normal human beings. You may find that there are limitless opportunities for future roleplay or IC activity if you keep the door open.

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